=+=+= HIP HOP =+=+=

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Permalink Reply by Janus Spills on June 26, 2008 at 4:54pm

First, respect on the zulunation link necessary..

Depending on who you ask, they say Hip Hop is dead. I have mixed feelings about that. It definately isn't as creative and pure as it used to be. But it's larger and more recognizable than it ever was. So, it truly becomes an issue of purity vs. commercialism. Then again, what genre/subculture hasn't suffered the same fate once it becomes popular enough? It's sad to see an entire generation of so-called fans who can't name a non-platinum rapper prior to 1999. It's sickening that for them the timeline starts with the death of Biggie and Tupac.

As for what needs to change, I believe the production sound has played itself out. I love a dope beat as much as anyone. But I can't remember the last Hip Hop producer besides Dan the automator(Deltron 3030 is the best mullenium classic in my opinion)and possibly Dangermouse that has really blown my mind as far as pushing the envelope. There are more dope emcees than ever, but the music is lacking in my opinion. I feel like we hit a wall creatively. Plus the age old battle against Hip Hop misogyny still looms but that's a lost cause.

I also miss the Hip Hop group. Everybody wants to do it solo now and it took away the great idea that young black or latino men and women can join together and create a serious force. Groups like Native Tounge, Juice Crew, DITC, Hiero(still doing it), Dogg Pound are virtually non-existent. It's sad to say but it's very possible thtat the best of Hip Hop may already be behind us.

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Permalink Reply by Janus Spills on June 26, 2008 at 5:39pm

Jah, I'm feelin you about Lil Wayne and Ghostface. That's a travesty and a half. I can't even defend that, for real. Now, the dope rhymesayers aren't getting the recognition they should, but there's no real shortage of them. I mean, no matter where I go I can here a hot 16 bar rap that a dude can spit out. There's millions of emcees out there, and perhaps a quarter of them are worth listening to. That's still a lot of rappers.

As for producers, all the ones you mention are great in their own right. I definately have to check out that show when it comes out. But there's no real breakthrough. The average Hip Hop beat is a 3 1/2 minute loop no matter how dope the beat is. Some of those producers you've mentioned have changed it up every now and then, but that's all. Dan the automator, on the other hand, makes beats within beats that feels like you listening to 2 or 3 songs at once. Not saying everybody should follow that formula(biting is a no-no)but it's a break from the monotony in the production. Dope beats are still being made, but they're not cutting edge.

btw, it seems you're the man when it comes to media links, holmes. that's dope.

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Permalink Reply by Rosenda on June 26, 2008 at 6:06pm

Music industry in general is like that though, from my observation. (Be it country, rock n roll, hip hop, or r &b). Middle of the road shit is easy to promote and produce on the part of the industry practioners. And the artists get to feeling it dont take much creativity and talent, because the industry promotes a "formula" that worked with the first originator and just copy it as long as it sells.

The benefit of the internet I think is it's easier for us consumers/listeners to have direct contact with each other, and pass along suggestions and mp3's of the artists we REALLY think are TRUE quality.

It's bypassing the Machine of Industry somewhat. Case in point, I'd have NEVER heard of MFDoom/Quasimoto/Dangerdoom and Madlib if it were not for some of you all here in the old boards of AfroPunk. Were they on the radio? No. Were they promoted on television? No.

But by direct contact with other hip hop fans (and yes I can say I've made some great other discoveries similary among rock the same way) passed me along some great information about artists I really now enjoy and can't believe I missed out on before.

Hip Hop ain't dead, it's just drowned out by Industry Formulas. But it's not impossible to find still some great talented writers rhymesayer and beatmakers.

The kids like Lil Wayne and others that I don't because they push him like mad, in regards television presence, videos, advertising. He got maybe a few songs he's done I like but not nearly enough to think he should be winning any awards yet.

You CAN'T let the blown up well advertised middle of the road copycat formula made hip hop artists distract you into believing there NOBODY talented out there. You just gotta look harder and in other places for them. You WILL find them.

Exactly the same goes for Rock And Roll, which is my other love musically, along with Ska and other Music.

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Permalink Reply by Janus Spills on June 26, 2008 at 7:28pm

You CAN'T let the blown up well advertised middle of the road copycat formula made hip hop artists distract you into believing there NOBODY talented out there. You just gotta look harder and in other places for them. You WILL find them.

Good advice. That's where I'm at now with it. Keeping my ears and eyes open.

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Permalink Reply by X-D-D-M*9 on June 26, 2008 at 11:15pm

Madlib, The Roots & Ghostface consistently keep me from jumping out a window.

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Permalink Reply by ibrother on June 27, 2008 at 12:50am

Landmark Seattle Hip Hop Arts and Culture Exhibition
“Dope Emporium” Opens at Artopia, Georgetown Arts Festival
http://seattledebate.org/dopeEmporium.htm

Seattle, WA – June 7th, 2007 - As a collaborative production from the Seattle Hip Hop community, Dope Emporium is a festival that spotlights the multifaceted talent and ingenuity of local Hip Hop Culture through two stages and five hours of live music and art, fashion, Hip Hop Debate, spoken word, turntablism, an Urban Arts Media film short, a producer and graffiti art challenge, b-boy/b-girl showcases, and more. Silent Lambs Project, 4BC Music, The TWOMP, and Hip Hop Congress are proud to launch the second episode of Dope Emporium on June 23rd, 2007 as a part of Artopia, the Georgetown Arts Festival presented by the Seattle Weekly. This landmark event is more than just a Hip Hop show; it is an open invitation for all to participate in the continual creation of Seattle Hip Hop History.

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Permalink Reply by SaintGermaine on June 27, 2008 at 9:07am

Yes yes, I was actually talking to a friend of mine last night about how current pop rap is pretty much unlistenable. They're not really even rapping really. Anyway, yeah, there is good stuff out there -- Madlib, Edan, Count Bass D. What is MF Doom up to these days anyway, he hasn't done anything since DangerDoom I think. The whole beef thing with MF Grimm is so dumb, they should bury the hatchett and make a dope KMD album with Count Bass D and Kurious. I'd spend money on that.

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Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on June 27, 2008 at 10:58am

I don't know if Ghostface and Weezy really have the same "clientele", Jahluv. People can decry songs like "lollipop", but anyone can sing the hook after they hear it two times. The beat also bumps in the trunk, at the tip rail, "champagne room", dance floor, etc. None of that makes the actual rapping on the song any better, but it does greatly expand the potential audience.

Just like in any other style of music, the most talented and creative people may not move the most units.

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Permalink Reply by Rosenda on June 27, 2008 at 3:27pm

Jahluv, that Ice T / Soulja Boy beef is HILARIOUS. That's like Blink 182 saying they play better guitar than Jimi Hendrix back in the day.

But the game has changed, that's for sure. Pretty funny. Speaking of Ice T, I saw pic of him and Medusa on her Myspace page, both of them attended the 2008 Players Ball where her and her band performed.



The Roots are considered "Grown and Sexy"? Now I've heard everything.

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Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on June 27, 2008 at 3:34pm

Rodney O and Ice T are two great examples of different styles of hip hop from the same era. Although he has had a few danceable hits, IMHO the stuff that Ice T is most known for are songs like 6 in the Morning, Midnight, and others that are kind of like flavorful short stories. They are really made for you to listen to, down to the last word, as opposed to turning the party out. Rodney O and Joe Cooley are kind of the opposite. The rhymes aren't that complex, but the cuts, the beats, and the scratches will get you out of your seat.

The same type of stylistic separation is at work today. Some music is made for the dance floor and some of it is made for listening, recognizing references, discussion and analysis, etc. It's too bad we can't have more that meets in the middle the way PE, PRT, and other groups used to. MF Doom, Ghostface, the Roots, etc. just perform a different style of the same overall genre with different values and a different fanbase.

Even though I have had plenty of laughs watching the Soulja Boy/Ice T feud clips, they do two completely different things. This would have been like him beefing with the chicks from L'Trimm back in the day.

A big tree with a lot of branches that are not identical.
NSFW

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Permalink Reply by Janus Spills on June 27, 2008 at 3:57pm

I'd have to agree with you, Compound. Half these rap feuds is apples and oranges, really. But they're entertaining nonetheless.

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Permalink Reply by Rosenda on June 27, 2008 at 4:09pm

This would have been like him beefing with the chicks from L'Trimm back in the day.

LMAO Compound!

Yes, I too remember "the cars that go boom". Good Lord. The contrast of the varying styles, great way of putting, C E.

You know what really made me laugh were the various personal parodies/versions of Soulja Boy that FLOODED on YouTube.

My favorite one was the Nigerian dudes doing "Naija Boy".

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