... the other Black experience
The Christian Trap
I was in the grocery store recently and at the time was in a really depressed sort of fragile mood. While I was walking down aisle this elderly black woman was walking towards me.She must have sensed my despair and gave me this very sweet motherly look. I thought I was going to melt. She was so sweet and motherly I just wanted to start breast feeding on her.
Then she said to me "Do you except Jesus as your lord and savior?" And when she noticed the oppositional look on my face. She said with the sweetest voice you could imagine " Alright now you know the lord will send you to eternal damnation" And at that point all that sweetness just went right out the window and all I could say was " oh tough guy huh! " That little old monster. Does anyone feel me on this?
Then she said to me "Do you except Jesus as your lord and savior?" And when she noticed the oppositional look on my face. She said with the sweetest voice you could imagine " Alright now you know the lord will send you to eternal damnation" And at that point all that sweetness just went right out the window and all I could say was " oh tough guy huh! " That little old monster. Does anyone feel me on this?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ghettopunkrocker on -
Christian fundamentalists suck and give a bad name to other people that are Christian. I could go on a tirade but I don't know where to start.
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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on -
stefany said:
No Shit!! Listen folks she ain't no fundamntalist. All that shit is straight from the Bible. If anything she is true to her faith.That old tactic of using fear to convert people isn't working anymore.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on -
what's new?
if she was a serious christian or had any valid arguments for why you should accept jesus then she wouldn't revert back to GOTCHA! hellfire/damnation patronizing "i's gave you a chance!" bish.
the idea from more moderate clear-thinking less-fearful christians is that all your problems or suffering when you give them to jesus/god will give you purpose and you'll bear that cross (struggle/suffering/challenges) for love of something bigger than yourself and with the knowledge that whatever happens is the will of god and you should always be perceptive and pray for guidance from the spirit--oh and god never gives you more than you can bear... lol ...blaaahblahblah... less of a malicious trap...they pose it more as an answer to suffering/depression/aimlessness.
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Permalink Reply by PolarVibez on -
I have no problem with people that are in tune with their faith and feel that it has them on the right path. I don't even have a problem with people that feel they want to share something that was helpful or benficial in their life and on their path with other people. But there is a way to do it and most Christians like the old woman above do it in the wrong way. There's a way to talk to someone about your beliefs without being pushy or condescending.
Like when I came to New York for the AP festival and I got stopped by this guy in Manhattan. He was probably around 25, White , looked like he could've been a skater or something, long story short, he starts asking me what I think about Jesus, do I believe in God etc. So I'm like yeah I believe in a creator, I'm not 100% on Jesus though cause I have issues with the bible and issues with religion in general. So he's coming at everything from a philosophical angle explaining why I should believe and I'm hitting him back with what I see as the pitfalls of religion etc. But we're having an intellegent coversation. And eventually we agree to disagree. If more Christians were like this guy there wouldn't be such an aversion to their faith.
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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on
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Well, I know what she said was straight from the Bible anyone knows that and also I don't quite understand "Clear Thinking Christians". What ever type of Christian you are,all religions for that matter, rely on faith for their existence.Faith is believing in something without proof of it being true.So, with that, as oppose to buying a used car from someone you don't know, never seen the car,paid him in full before you get to see the car ,with cash. Your giving up your soul.So you can safely say, once you give your soul to something based on faith you can pretty much guarantee that "Clear Thinking" is going straight out the window.
You know, if you can think of a nice way to tell someone "If you don't worship my god. He's going to torture you forever." please let me know and even if you do, it doesn't matter, because you know that's what Christians think anyway. No matter how polite they are.Sadly that's probably the most important part of their faith. I'm definitely not into the "We agree to disagree theory" Based on what I know about history and what's happening now. There is no way I can let it slide anymore.After I realized what religion has done to humanity.I can't have blind faith that it will go away nor will I respect it.Once I realized what religion is really doing to us and to people close to me its like this insanely powerful "crack epidemic" that's been going on for thousands of years.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
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Faith my dear... true faith given by people with rational thinking skills = clear thinking christian. They appear to exist on my end--like my cousin who went into seminary and a friend who i saw evolve into christian living. These are the people who'll "agree to disagree", the ones who don't want creationism taught in schools, the ones who believe in secular government and affecting christian change thru community organizing, the ppl who truly believe and struggle with living the god-fearing/christian path of service to god and others.
Honestly--what's your alternative? Pride? Arrogance? Self-righteousness?
I'm not Christian but i see the appeal in a few people who live and constantly revise and question themselves on the path and then there are the russian christian anarchists and the christian mystic tradition ppl rarely ever read about (they're the ones who never say jesus/god will burn you unless you enslave yourself to him--for many of them hell is merely the absence of god's grace through humans alienating themselves from god--traditionally they're the ones who buck against the church, powerstructure, and false sectarian divisions between humans)... so unless you know about these significant caveats in Christian thought that persist to this day despite hierarchy and corruption--then really be cautious about sounding like a bigot when talking about what ALL christians believe, think, or do. ...but really, considering the climate, you'd just sound "normal" while that ignorant rude old woman sounds like a "normal" christian.
Faith in anything bigger than yourself and having spirituality is a beautiful thing (this is reflected in loads of successful progressive movements)...something I'm not a part of, but I recognize it. If faith organizations can be cured from the inside they can do amazing things for the community and even non-christians--for example, the movement to legalize gay marriage in Canada was somewhat based and became a reality due, in part, to the efforts of progressive christian Canadian churches.
Cheers!
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Permalink Reply by Hardwired on -
I'm struggling to get past, "she was so sweet and motherly I just wanted to start breast feeding on her..."
Anyhow, the old lady may have been out if order but if Palin gets elected you might find this approach rather tame.
I respect peoples religion but I wonder if we stereotype these evangelicals too much. If you substitute, "Do you except Jesus as your lord and savior?" for, "Do you renouced your past wrong doings and will you seek to live your life your life better in the future?" to whole things sounds less threatening. I imaging that many Christians equate Jesus and Christianity more particularly to being a good (however you define it) person. Perhaps what the old woman lacks is good PR advice.
Peace
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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on
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Ha Ha This is funny. OK, let me get this right.You said if she substituted what she said with what you said it would have made things less threatening. Well if she said" I want to give you a million dollars" that would be less threatening too. But she didn't say or mean that.She said exactly what she meant.And you know that. All Christians believe in that.And I ain't never going to respect that.
Lesy these people believe that if you don't believe in their God you will be torture forever.Whether they it say it or not.You can't fake it like the so called moderates do.I can't "agree to disagree" on that.I have an issue about that statement anyway. You only "agree to disagree" when can't you convince the other person to see your point of view.
Sorry but any kind of faith isn't about rational or clear thinking.Its about believing or having FAITH that something is true without proof of it being true.
Can you name me one moralistic ideal or concept in the Bible that hasn't been learned or understood some other way? I bet you can't. So where's the divinity? It isn't about morals. You can learn that without the Bible.
I understand how it can be a struggle with living the God fearing path.Just like I can see how insane it is to try and be a "Christian Anarchist" A total oxymoron. If you can explain how that works I'd appreciate it. As for "Christian Mysticism",first off there is more proof that the bible is a fraud than there is God existing anyway, so that's not going to convince me. Just another group trying to play both sides cause their own instincts tells them one thing but, they don't want to burn in hell and of course there is the blind faith always a prerequisite.I'm sorry you can't convince me that some imaginary person in the sky exists and I won't respect those beliefs because there is no proof that they are true. Now that what you call rational and clear thinking. Oh yea I can see how the Canadian Church would be instrumental in legalizing Gay Marriage. Especial when they where instrumental in banning it in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by digitalxsunrise on -
lol! the only bad thing about old people is that they turn on you like that! & the soiling too...
anyways, that's my mom's side of the family, trying to save the world with Jesus & whatnot. i'm a buddhist & they're convinced i'm going to hell. if i go, i go. but i don't need anyone preaching to me about what i should & shouldn't worship. it's my choice as an american.
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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on
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Tasasha said:
Tasasha, I glad that you are participating in this debate. It's very important and everyone should be involved . But you have to understand that you are not getting any blind faith from me on this topic.You say you identify yourself as being a Christian,Well of course, you well know(Christian Anarchist???), that anyone can. But that doesn't mean you truly are. So if you could give a little more insight that would be helpful. And please, the morality approach won't work I can prove all day that morals have been understand way before Christianity was even conjured up. So the only thing I can see that truly bounds people to that faith is the fear of God and what he may do to you if you don't believe. But for some reason the so called moderates avoid agreeing or disagreeing with that point.Your the first one who's disagreed.So please tell us about your faith and how you practice it.I identify as a christian and I don't believe that.
Lesy these people believe that if you don't believe in their God you will be torture forever
Lesy, thank you for not stereotyping and recognizing there are different types of christians and we don't all believe the same things.
Golem You can think as clearly and as rational as you want but to use faith all you have to do is believe. There is no clear thinking involved. The old lady was true to the bible and her faith. Show me how that it isn't true. I also notice how you use words that leave things open.So that your point of view makes sense. But we are not talking about life experiences.We're talking about religion,the bible and how its affecting us.
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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on
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You know Golem this is how Religion has fucked with our heads. Giving our souls to blind faith has token away a lot of our ability to think critically and so we say,believe and expect others to believe without question or a constructive explanation. I tried to show Tasasha how she was doing it with her statement and now I'm going to show you how you're doing it with yours. So you say its all connected? Is that it? Because you say its all connected am I supposed to believe you. Without any kind of explaination.(An aethiest is no more a clear-thinker than a Christian....Actions can prove that, not theories and biblical texts.)Hey prove this to me and I will change my point of view. But don't just say this is the way it is and expect me to believe you.
I never accused anyone of being unintelligent. Its a scientific fact that the process of faith does not involve clear thinking. Just use your common sense.If you believe in something to be true without proof of it being true how much thinking does it take to do that.LOL There are things that I have faith in but to give our souls to religion based on faith is and has been destructive to humanity.
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