The Christian Trap

I was in the grocery store recently and at the time was in a really depressed sort of fragile mood. While I was walking down aisle this elderly black woman was walking towards me.She must have sensed my despair and gave me this very sweet motherly look. I thought I was going to melt. She was so sweet and motherly I just wanted to start breast feeding on her.
Then she said to me "Do you except Jesus as your lord and savior?" And when she noticed the oppositional look on my face. She said with the sweetest voice you could imagine " Alright now you know the lord will send you to eternal damnation" And at that point all that sweetness just went right out the window and all I could say was " oh tough guy huh! " That little old monster. Does anyone feel me on this?

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Permalink Reply by PolarVibez on September 7, 2008 at 11:30pm

But ultimately, what does it matter what someone else thinks about you. Everyone has to search for answers to things they don't understand within themselves. For some people, religion is a way to do that. Faith may seem crazy or irrational, but for some people it makes all the sense in the world because just believing in something answers so many questions and feels a void inside that I think everyone is born with.

Over the years religion has definetely been used as a tool to suppress, subdue and divide the masses. Same with many forms of tainted education and entertainment and when all else fails, violence. But what are we you going to do? We are all fortunate enough to live in a time and place where we can ponder these things somewhat freely. Lots of people had to die for us to go in public and procalim ourselves buddhist, christians, atheist, or whatever. People are still dying over this in other countries and that's a sad thing. So why am I going to sit here and not try to meet another human being on some form of common ground just because we don't believe in the same thing. We end up falling into the the trap of distancing ourselves from our fellow man or woman and that's what the proverbial forces of evil want. That old woman was guilty of this and when we cut Christians off just because "they believe all us heathens are going to hell", we do the same thing. I judge people individually. I personally know people that have become better people overall when they've latched onto a faith. How can I tell them their thinking is flawed? Who the hell am I? How do I know what they had to wrestle with to bring them to that point? I have no right. But the respect has to be mutual. So yeah, I'll respect you path, just respect mine enough not to throw it up in my face once you've learned my beliefs. People with a "clear idea of humanity" whether Christain or not can do this. All these things, this "God fog" has been here longer than all of us. We're all here just tryin' to make sense of it. At this point the only thing that can truly unite us is a "clear idea of humanity", because religion is not going to go away. Science hasn't answered all of our questions and I don't think it ever will. So as long as there are these questions there will always be a need to believe there is an answer.

The Lure Lovers said:

You know Golem this is how Religion has fucked with our heads. Giving our souls to blind faith has token away a lot of our ability to think critically and so we say,believe and expect others to believe without question or a constructive explanation. I tried to show Tasasha how she was doing it with her statement and now I'm going to show you how you're doing it with yours. So you say its all connected? Is that it? Because you say its all connected am I supposed to believe you. Without any kind of explaination.(An aethiest is no more a clear-thinker than a Christian....Actions can prove that, not theories and biblical texts.)Hey prove this to me and I will change my point of view. But don't just say this is the way it is and expect me to believe you.

I never accused anyone of being unintelligent. Its a scientific fact that the process of faith does not involve clear thinking. Just use your common sense.If you believe in something to be true without proof of it being true how much thinking does it take to do that.LOL There are things that I have faith in but to give our souls to religion based on faith is and has been destructive to humanity.

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Permalink Reply by superherolnchbox on September 8, 2008 at 12:53am

i hate christians.. they are a disease.... i would have told her...if there was a god he wouldnt allow you to get so old and useless...

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on September 8, 2008 at 8:16pm

superherolnchbox said:

i hate christians.. they are a disease.... i would have told her...if there was a god he wouldnt allow you to get so old and useless...

Ha Ha Ha Marshe!!! What's happening?I can't even post my reply now. OK That was a message from the few people on this forum that are actually from the counter culture.

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on September 29, 2008 at 7:31pm

Tasasha said:

Um, this is gonna be kinda hard. what i believe and how i practice my faith:
1. i believe in God and Jesus. i believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose three days later. 2. i pray and believe that God answers prayers 3. i view the bible as a collection of stories that offer guidelines on how to live a good life. i think there are a lot of good guidelines such as the then commandments, love your neighbor as your love yourself,etc. i do know that the bible has been rewritten many times and things have been added and taken out but i don't believe it invalidates the bible 4. i rarely talk about religion wtih people; my faith and beliefs are private to me so its actually weird for me to be talking about this 5. i also believe other religions are just as valid as christianity; i've started researching various religions of other african origins, vodun, santeria,etc. i see nothing wrong with incorporation aspects of other belief systems into my life 6. i don't go to church really; if i find one that i like then i'll go i'll write more tomorrow

Ok, Tasaha, I understand that your not use to this so I'll be gentle and take it slow. But also your into jounalism.So you should have some skin for this. You said you believe in God and Jim Morri..... I mean Jesus.
And you pray to god and he answers your prayers. Lets start here.And please none of this is your going to understand unless you are able to look at it critically and with common sense.This is my issue with God answering your prayers and why it doesn't make sense that he does.And without the fact that he does not exist.

If he actually answered prayers the world be a paradise and I would be a Christian. It just doesn't make sense.I remember one of my relatives was pulling into a parking lot of a mall and when they found a parking space they thanked God for giving it to them.At the time I had just recently watch the doc. called"The Devil Rode Horse Back" (see it) Its a film about the genocide in Darfur.In the film there was a scene where they were showing pictures of kids 3-10 years old and how they would chain the kids to a pole and burn them alive.So I thought to myself "How could god make sure someone got a parking space in a mall.But would let an innocent child die a death that I before wouldn't wish on someone who I thought deserved to die.
Plus God is suppose to know this is going on,even your most intimate thoughts and he supposedly put the people that are doing this on the planet.I feel with this you shouldn't even have to pray for cause he already is suppose to know what you want.
But,If he is willing to answer your prayers and made sure my relative got parking space. Then there is no reason I can think of that would make him let an innocent child die such a horrific death like that.

Most Christians would say maybe god had a reason that we don't know of for doing this.If that is true.Why would God(now I say) cause the death to an innocent child to prove a point or get a message to anyone.That doesn't make sense and that would make God a very evil person.This is why I feel so strongly about religion because it makes people except and support the most horrific things. But I would rather say that there is no God.So I'll leave there for now and address the rest later.

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on October 1, 2008 at 6:51am

Tasasha said:

well i honestly can't answer the question of why horrible things happen to people; i don't know why. nothing i say is gonna change your mind about religion and nothing you say is gonna change my mind about religion (which really shouldn't be our intention anyway). my beliefs work for me and i know in my heart that God is real; i know that sounds illogical to you but that's how i feel.

The Lure Lovers said:

"How could god make sure someone got a parking space in a mall (and answer your prayers).But would let an innocent child die a death that I before wouldn't wish on someone who I thought deserved to die? Why would God cause the death to an innocent child to prove a point or get a message to anyone..

These are the only questions I asked you in my post. I never asked you why horrible things happen to people. So if you could give an logical answer to these questions I would appreciate it.
You can convince me.Look, if you could give me some answers with fact or logical reasoning behind it. I'll run through the streets praising God's glory. But, I predict that your are not going to answer these questions.You probably won't even reply anymore.But you'll go to other threads and say things like "Atheism is the in thing til there is a terrorist attack" What exactly do you mean by that? It doesn't make any sense to me.

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on October 1, 2008 at 7:00pm

rational christians, ppl who don't believe the bible literally but have a healthy faith in The Other/Etheral/Higher Power don't necessarily believe in a personal god that answers prayers for parking spots. i mean, why are you hung up over ONE very, extraordinarly narrow understanding of god that ignorant ppl cling to?

also, your arrogance is pretty bullshit. you've got to admit you live a privileged life and maybe that's why you can prance around on the internets talking about how stupid and blahblahblah people of faith are.

i got 51 seconds left on this library computer so i'm out--just read the last few posts.

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on October 2, 2008 at 7:14am

Tasasha said:

what are you talking about with this statement? I think you're confusing me with someone else cause i dont really post here that much. i have never said or thought anything like that!!!

br /> My answer is still the same. I dont know why God will make sure someone gets a parking spot but let a child die but I don't think God causes death to anyone.

My bad! It was on a thread that you posted on and I didn't pay attention. That was not the same answer.You said you didn't know why bad things happen to people, which I think is untrue.You may not know why they happen to everyone. I trying to understand something here and I hope that you are willing to help me do so.Are you concerned that he answers your prayers and is willing to make sure someone gets a parking spot, but not just let a child die,but tortured to death,burnt alive?Do you question that? Help me understand this.

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on October 2, 2008 at 8:00am

LesYpersound said:

rational christians, ppl who don't believe the bible literally but have a healthy faith in The Other/Etheral/Higher Power don't necessarily believe in a personal god that answers prayers for parking spots. i mean, why are you hung up over ONE very, extraordinarly narrow understanding of god that ignorant ppl cling to?
also, your arrogance is pretty bullshit. you've got to admit you live a privileged life and maybe that's why you can prance around on the internets talking about how stupid and blahblahblah people of faith are. i got 51 seconds left on this library computer so i'm out--just read the last few posts.

Bettina,Bettina,Bettina!!!
First off, I'm having a debate with someone that does believe God answers prayers.
That narrow understanding from what I've seen, experienced and foresee has effected me,my family,friends and the world in a very negative way.
We've debated this topic enough for you to know what those issues are.I'm not going to explain them again.
And even if I gave you the benefit of a doubt.The majority of all Christians believe in that ONE very, extraordinarily narrow understanding of god and yes they are ignorant ppl for clinging to it. Your trying to defend a very small minority that I can easily prove are no different.
If they are willing to debate me.Now that's the question. But one subject at a time.Please!!

Actually, instead of you worrying about any of this. You should be worried about what your doing with your college money.Your arrogance is pretty bullshit???That's like saying "your water is pretty wet"......And the hits keep coming. P.S. Why should I read the last few post? I wrote most of them.Duh?

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on October 2, 2008 at 5:35pm

lullz... ain't my name pretty?

mk, i'll give you most of whatever you said in yer last post. MOST christians in America probably do believe in that personal god that watches over you while you look for a parking space or thinks yer a murderer when you jagoff...they claim to believe all of that yet act in irrational ways even according to their so-called beliefs. Like the murderous christians who then ignore Jesus' most important teachings...yet hide behind their "culture of life" bullshit.

Not sure if the person yer 'debating' is one of those assholes...but, yeah, for sure a lot of them exist and a lot of them are the ones who are a part of the group that come up to a person unsolicited with their bullshit beliefs...or can't stretch their minds to how to make their religious based beliefs into secular arguments for or against whatever the fuck they believe...or even better how to concede personal beliefs for the public good and respect for others.

where loudmouth asshole atheists trip up like idiotic christian bible thumpers is that last bit--respect for others. but whocares, the bile is prolly spat out indiscriminantly in the end. :)

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on October 2, 2008 at 10:13pm

probably not...but yay for progressive/social justice christians.

anyway, like i said before.... it's really easy for ahole atheists who attack christians or religious ppl ad naseum to forget that ppl go through real hardships and get slammed down with nonsensical and cruel things in life and they got to believe in prayer, a personal god who cares, and that there's justice in the end.

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on October 3, 2008 at 11:56am

LesYpersound said:

probably not...but yay for progressive/social justice christians.
anyway, like i said before.... it's really easy for ahole atheists who attack christians or religious ppl ad naseum to forget that ppl go through real hardships and get slammed down with nonsensical and cruel things in life and they got to believe in prayer, a personal god who cares, and that there's justice in the end.

But thats just it, they don't have to pray or believe in a personal god.Because there is no proof that based on the religious definition god exists.
I never said that there isn't anything beyond all this but I know for a fact that it isn't what religious people defined it as and I know for a fact that nobody knows what it is.Everybody goes through real hardships thats no excuse.

Religion can't be about morality.When people are just as moral (if not more)without the bible or believing in a imaginary person in the sky.
No, this is about why that cat in the other thread had no problems denying someone their human rights.It ain't even about humanity like they try and pretend it to be. Its about this delusion of having your personal insurance policy when you die.You talk about the good Christians of the north all you want to.But there are over a billion people who believe that they are going to some paradise bullshit. While the world and what's being left for their children is going to hell.
On top of it there are a billion people who believe and support ideals and laws that effect me based on their beliefs.Now if your calling me an "ahole atheist".Then I would say, go fuck yourself. Cause I have every right to feel the way I do.And for you to try and deny me that is bullshit. So fuck you.If your not, than I retract that statement.Peace

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Permalink Reply by The Lure Lovers on October 3, 2008 at 12:36pm

Tasasha said:

Yes in the past I have questioned why God lets children die. i know this not gonna make sense to you but now i just think maybe God was ready for those people to be with him in heaven, why did they have to suffer such violent death? i don't know. i don't have any other answer.

Your right, it makes no sense at all. Where talking about toddlers 5,6,etc. yrs old.They haven't even lived yet. If god created everything and could have keep those kids from dying a death like that than he is just as responsible as the people who did it.(Actually more responsible) Just like all of us as part of humanity are responsible.I can't see how anyone can deny that.I respect the fact that you are willing to say you don't know.Most Christians would never do that. I also appreciate your demeanor. Unlike Lesy here, you can talk to people without guns blazing. But I think for me (and I'd wish for you) to respect much less believe in religion,questions like these must be answered. That just makes sense. Especial when giving your soul to something.