5 Year-Old Sold into Prostitution by Mother

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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on November 17, 2009 at 10:09am

... Like someone said earlier, I don't understand why they think she was sold off for prostitution. I don't expect all details to be divulged so soon (if at all), but that's also why I don't understand why popular sentiment, thus far, favors the assumption that this woman is guilty of that particular crime. It's as if, simply because it's a child crime, everyone automatically assumes the accused is guilty. Nobody knows anything about this woman's parenting skills, based on the slivers of personal information peppered into the articles published thus far. From what I could gather, she hasn't admitted to anything, and doesn't seem to know this McNeill character personally.

And here's one for the "Unpop" thread: I have a feeling that the father is not what would be considered "African-American." Somebody might rightfully tell me that has nothing to do with a child's victimization, but I think it has much to do with how this story has been presented thus far. She's the perfect foil to the caring father, and some angry folk are going to enjoy "justifiably" disliking her nappy-headed self, based on some of the blog comments I've seen already, making reference to this woman's hair texture, supposed "race", and other irrelevant superficialities (as if these are signifiers of a person's abilities to be a fit parent -- some subconscious shit). Methinks if this woman wasn't black, AP folk would shed one little "(American) Indian tear" and keep it moving.

I agree with Damos on some points (see: tangents in the John Muhammad thread) regarding the "guilty till proven innocent" sentiment that pervades crimes horrendous enough to shock people. From the looks of the news articles I've read so far, cops don't even know enough yet. Either that, or they don't yet care or find it feasible to present any evidence publicly against the mother to justify her arrest.

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Permalink Reply by CocoaPuss Zine on November 17, 2009 at 10:38am

i also don't think the dad is black. but i'm not sure, i haven't seen a picture of him, but i'm sure it'll be on the news soon and he'll be interviewed and what not.

i thought the person who admitted to kidnapping her (mario mcneil) was an ex boyfriend of the mother. also black. also with dreads. his picture was obviously on the news already too. the media is funny like that. if people are innocent until proven guilty then why does the media get to post their picture everywhere and slam them the way they do? it's like we can all form our own opinion of them without getting all the facts first. i know i'm guilty of this right now. i automatically assumed she was guilty and i still don't know the whole story. i still think she has a lot to do with shaniya's disappearance/death though.



Rage_Proletaire said:

... Like someone said earlier, I don't understand why they think she was sold off for prostitution. I don't expect all details to be divulged so soon (if at all), but that's also why I don't understand why popular sentiment, thus far, favors the assumption that this woman is guilty of that particular crime. It's as if, simply because it's a child crime, everyone automatically assumes the accused is guilty. Nobody knows anything about this woman's parenting skills, based on the slivers of personal information peppered into the articles published thus far. From what I could gather, she hasn't admitted to anything, and doesn't seem to know this McNeill character personally.
And here's one for the "Unpop" thread: I have a feeling that the father is not what would be considered "African-American." Somebody might rightfully tell me that has nothing to do with a child's victimization, but I think it has much to do with how this story has been presented thus far. She's the perfect foil to the caring father, and some angry folk are going to enjoy "justifiably" disliking her nappy-headed self, based on some of the blog comments I've seen already, making reference to this woman's hair texture, supposed "race", and other irrelevant superficialities (as if these are signifiers of a person's abilities to be a fit parent -- some subconscious shit). Methinks if this woman wasn't black, AP folk would shed one little "(American) Indian tear" and keep it moving.
I agree with Damos on some points (see: tangents in the John Muhammad thread) regarding the "guilty till proven innocent" sentiment that pervades crimes horrendous enough to shock people. From the looks of the news articles I've read so far, cops don't even know enough yet. Either that, or they don't yet care or find it feasible to present any evidence publicly against the mother to justify her arrest.

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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on November 17, 2009 at 11:02am

CocoaPuss Zine said:

i also don't think the dad is black. but i'm not sure, i haven't seen a picture of him, but i'm sure it'll be on the news soon and he'll be interviewed and what not.

i thought the person who admitted to kidnapping her (mario mcneil) was an ex boyfriend of the mother. also black. also with dreads. his picture was obviously on the news already too. the media is funny like that. if people are innocent until proven guilty then why does the media get to post their picture everywhere and slam them the way they do? it's like we can all form our own opinion of them without getting all the facts first. i know i'm guilty of this right now. i automatically assumed she was guilty and i still don't know the whole story. i still think she has a lot to do with shaniya's disappearance/death though.

Yeah, I've always had a problem with how people's pictures and shit get circulated so quickly, merely off the buzz of accusation. And there are certain accusations that can damage your character automatically, before any factual details are released. For the authorities, having a picture in their possession tends to aid in swaying people's assumptions before the story competely unfolds. It's like a visual admission of guilt or something.

Although I think I assumed something was up the moment I saw her photo. Not so much about the crime, but if there's any political slant/agenda in the presentation, I think I picked up on it, even if it proves to be unfounded later. And her mug shot is hella fly, in my opinion, so I'm just as guilty of the inverse reaction.

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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on November 17, 2009 at 11:12am

(Again, my apologies if no one finds the socio-political factors relevant...)

... But yeah, dad ain't black (hence the national coverage?)

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/16/crimesider/entry5671892.sht...

***************

edit: Clarence Coe was the boyfriend they initially arrested, and released. Not sure if they've mentioned how they think McNeill fits into this.

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on November 17, 2009 at 12:10pm

yeah to both of your concerns... but for some reason to me turning this into a racial issue is sad. i don't know. it's not like for every article they were blasting the white father's race or picture. and seeing the media frenzy around white people who do the same types of crimes against children (jonbenet ramsey, the various crazy white moms who killed their children, and there was a white father in illinois who was sent to jail based on hype for killing his daughter and then released years later after they found physical evidence proving someone else did it) makes me want to think that the fact that the mother is a black woman with dreads isn't the deciding factor on why this tragic story is national news...

anyway, shaniya's mother entered no plea when she went to court on the trafficking and child abuse charges.

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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on November 17, 2009 at 12:21pm

LesYpersound said:

yeah to both of your concerns... but for some reason to me turning this into a racial issue is sad...>

I honestly don't think this would even be reported on if there weren't other sentiments boiling in the political climate right now. Yes, it sucks that a child died behind some bullshit, but children die. All the time. They've not made any evidence public to bolster the claim that this woman sold her child into sex slavery (a charge, which you pointed on, she refused a plea on). So if the issue is primarily child prostitution, I'd like to see more info a little more quickly to make me believe that theory.

As far as race and/or ethnicity goes, I can't ignore that. This is Amurrka, and such factors may never become "irrelevant" where crime and the presentation of "criminals" are concerned. Been on one side of an interrogation room table before -- presentation matters, to some degree. I think it was a bit too soon to publish that woman's photo. Personally, I am more interested in how the story is presented, and how said presentation evolves as facts unfold.

If appearances were irrelevant, why would anyone bother publishing photos of suspects that have already been apprehended?

All I can say about the child is if she was indeed abducted and/or sold for the sake of sex, then at least she's dead now, without having to endure a lengthier period of suffering.

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on November 17, 2009 at 12:39pm

Fay Observer:
http://www.fayobserver.com/video?path=/2009/11/1116davisincourt.flv...
the video of when the police announced the charges.

the information that led to the providing shaniya for child trafficking/prostitution charges came the day she was charged with them. the filing a false police report and misleading investigators was made after investigators reviewed the timeline she gave to them and saw she was lying. it was based on > her < statements that clarence coe was held and questioned by police and when the investigators figured she was lying and got more information/tips he was released.
basically, it's not like the investigators were all up in her cooch from the get go.

my point in bringing up that the hysteria happens with white people is that, i think, this hysteria has more to do with the perps being the parents, sex being involved, and the girls being of a certain age. child sex crimes are heinous. also the investigation did a 180 where they believed the mother, found out she was lying, and then received information that made it apparent to them that she at least offered shaniya up for sex/prostitution. no doubt the truth is more complicated, and i'm not asking folk to ignore that she's a black woman in a white judicial system, but damn... just because she is black don't mean she's being set up, is innocent, or is guilty either. ...but hey, i was one of those black ppl who cringed when OJ was acquitted.

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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on November 17, 2009 at 12:51pm

^^

Point taken.

Again, I admit that my own reaction was a knee-jerk thing, too. Just strikes me as a touchy thing when people immediately attack parenting skills, or the lack thereof, when a parent is named as a suspect. I don't think the details you just gave were released yesterday, but sometimes folk tend to dive into the blind hate thing a lil' too quickly.

And yes, the factors you laid out about the heinous nature of the crime are worthy of the forefront (not that I'm the only judge of that). I'm still kind of curious about how they figured out she was bullshittin' them, and would like to know how solid that evidence really is. Maybe I've been spoiled with "The First 48", and being able to watch the unraveling process in such a way.

As far as OJ goes, same here. And though it may not be related, I've a feeling some of the peripheral audience who followed the DC Sniper stories were somewhat ouraged that the man had the nerve to be black (and guilty). Wondering if she's likely to get the same treatment, should this incident be subject to a protracted dissection in the news.

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Permalink Reply by StillStanding on November 18, 2009 at 11:00am

While the media LOVES these stories, mothers like her are an anomaly, and the vast majority of mothers losing their children by force are victims of domestic violence, losing them to violent abusers. There's money in Child Custody Litigation, SO what do they do when the MOTHER is the dangerous one? Why, they hand the child over to HER of course.

Family courts are NO BETTER than MOTHERS who sell their children.

What's happening is that even the most well-documented cases are still *mandated* into mediation which costs THOUSANDS. Victims then have the evidence they submit tossed into as mediator's file box, then mediators make custody recommendations that completely ignore the issue of a father's violence. Laws that are in place often have *no* rulings, meaning they're not being followed-at all. Why?

This nets the court professionals an average 80K from the Protective Parent over the years of litigation (•Neustein, A., & Goetting, A. (1999).

What kind of father abuses his children? (The Leadership Council - Custody Myths)-Predominately, one who abused their mother:To date, over 30 studies that have examined the co-occurrence of domestic violence and child abuse found a large overlap. Overall, both forms of violence were found in 40% of families studied with the range in the majority of studies varying from 30% to 60% of families (Appel & Holden, 1998, Edleson, 1999).

What kind of "dad" molests his daughters? A violent man is 6.5 times MORE likely to molest his daughters. (Lundy Bancroft; Understanding the Batterer...)

These people are perpetuating the Cycle of Family Violence, for money. Think this is "not your problem?” This is the pool of males your daughters will choose from.

US citizens should form a single massive movement to reform the family courts, and stop the abuse-for- money scam. Literally millions of abuse victims have been re-victimized in family courts when they try to leave.

THIS DAD SHOULD have had FULL custody, but NO...this is reserved for documented Woman and Child abusers.

See StopFamilyViolence.org

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Permalink Reply by MER on January 18, 2010 at 6:00pm

You know, I'm not shocked hearing this. I'm sure it's been done from since the dawn of time and more frequently especially with the economy souring a bit.

Still wrong to do, but I'm not shocked.

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