Anti-gay bullying leads to suicide of 11-year old boy

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 18, 2009 at 7:31pm

yeah it's been mentioned: http://afropunk.ning.com/forum/topics/in-the-news-the-effects-of-a
so. what are your thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by CapCityBlack512 on April 18, 2009 at 8:25pm

LesYpersound said:

yeah it's been mentioned: http://afropunk.ning.com/forum/topics/in-the-news-the-effects-of-a
so. what are your thoughts?

Ahhh... I guess didn't look around as thoroughly as I thought I did. Good looking out on this topic.

I had so much to talk about initially when I saw this story covered on CNN yesterday (really surprised that it was being covered to the degree it was at all). The problems with our public schools, particularly those that are predominantly black and hispanic. The increasingly poor parenting evident in the younger generation of children, growing up with a lack of respect and tolerance for other people. Homophobia in the black community and the costs of not subscribing to an accepted image of masculinity... There were a lot of things I was thinking about when I heard about it and listening to the boy's mother speak on the issue.

One really scary thing that this reminds me of is that we are truly a long way from the tolerance and progressive thinking concerning homosexuality and masculinity/femininity that the media would have you believe is being rapidly embraced by a younger generation. Especially among black folks... For a good percentage of the adult population in America, they are too set in their attitudes and ideas concerning people that live different lifestyle. This is not true of these young kids, most of whom act the way they do simply based on the examples around them. More has to be done to educate these kids and instill in them virtues of respect, tolerance, and acceptance when it comes to ALL people.

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Permalink Reply by CapCityBlack512 on April 18, 2009 at 8:35pm

I like what you mentioned in the other post as well about being constructive with these tragic types of stories too

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 18, 2009 at 8:53pm

So how do you deal w/ this issue of homophobia/hetero-norm/hyper-masculine code-switching on a day-to-day basis in your own life, w/ your fam, and in your community?

How did you arrive to the point where a goal you'd like to see met = the acceptance of a more fluid gender identity for everyone that has more to do with reality rather than one-size-fits-all/mainstream/"normal" gender roles and the acceptance or tolerance of different ways ppl choose to love?

And a bit of a more basic thing--how can we prevent kids from being really mean and dehumanizing to each other period? There's the light-hearted bullying, the bullies who reproduce the negativity they experience, and then the elitists who see their worth in how exclusive they can be...

I'm really curious about the last question. i like what i heard on a radio show about having a rule for really young kids that they can't say no to playing because it's better and more fun if everyone plays. so if a kid asks to play, they got to play with them to be good sports and are forced to be inclusive...

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Permalink Reply by Rosenda on April 18, 2009 at 9:40pm

I read an article on this recently in the news too. Navigating life through people around you who accept you and don't accept you, for many reasons, can be painful.

That's a good suggestion, Lesy. There are things when we were kids that our parents really had to force us to learn and as we got older we totally better understood why they did that. Like not putting people down and bullying them just because they are different than you (be they gay, another ethnic or cultural or religious group, etc etc.). People can't assume kids will learn that in school or from other people by example. Sometimes it really has to be hit home directly.

I just saw this crime show today from the LA County Coroner's office of some case from last year they were investigating an apparent suicide, and it was a young gay Latino male. And part of the investigation, the announcer stated that nearly 30% of teen suicides are homosexuals. It's wrong to get all down and mean to another young person if they are gay. People need to learn early in life if you don't like or agree with someone how they are, just leave them alone to live their lives. You don't have to go after them and bully them.

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Permalink Reply by CocoaPuss Zine on April 19, 2009 at 12:12am

my son is two and right now me and his dad argue over polishing his finger and toe nails. our son LOVES it when i do this because he's learning his colors and thinks it's awesome that he has color on his fingers, his dad HATES it. i'm not sure why. he probably thinks that having hot pink toenails is somehow very feminine and i just don't give a fuck. our child is two he likes what he likes. i don't want his dad panicking and being crazy over that.

i think that's all the activism i have in me as a mother to a child who isn't potty trained yet.

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 19, 2009 at 1:32am

that's all that matters... dad getting angry over stupid shit is just going to confuse the little one maybe, but really nail polish doesn't need to be a taboo or a source of shame for anyone.... :p

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Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on April 19, 2009 at 3:03am

Bullying isn't going stop anytime soon. To prevent kids from killing themselves over it they need to have a really open level of communication with their parents. Their folks have to really listen and not let loose with some of the standards: "man up", "I had it way worse than you", etc.

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Permalink Reply by CocoaPuss Zine on April 19, 2009 at 10:17am

i agree. even from the time they are really little it's so important to listen and let them tell you how their day was. there are kids at my son's daycare who wouldn't play with him and it devastated me. because my son is awesome. who wouldn't want to play with him? but i stood there and watched it happen and he ran back to me and hugged me and explained it to me and we talked for a second and then he found some other friends.

oh yeah one more thing: do NOT let people get away with calling something "gay". especially small children. expand their vocabulary. i overheard a middle school age child in my apts tell his friends that he wouldn't wear a helmet because "helmets are gay". and that is unacceptable. i wanted to slam on my brakes and smack him in the mouth. people say "that's gay" way too much and think it's funny and it's not. that one lesson could be life saving.

i have a hard time really grasping the idea of an 11 year old killing himself. like how did he know what to do? killing yourself is really hard to do, most people don't get it right the first time. how does suicide get into the brain of an 11 year old?

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Permalink Reply by Madamoiselle De Sade on April 19, 2009 at 11:39am

Exactly. I always stop people and explain to them what they're REALLY saying- what it REALLY means. It's sad. All this homophobic behavior engendered in people, to the point where they make anything "odd" a source of shame to the kid like nail polish. ..it just creates a problem.

CocoaPuss Zine said:

i agree. even from the time they are really little it's so important to listen and let them tell you how their day was. there are kids at my son's daycare who wouldn't play with him and it devastated me. because my son is awesome. who wouldn't want to play with him? but i stood there and watched it happen and he ran back to me and hugged me and explained it to me and we talked for a second and then he found some other friends.

oh yeah one more thing: do NOT let people get away with calling something "gay". especially small children. expand their vocabulary. i overheard a middle school age child in my apts tell his friends that he wouldn't wear a helmet because "helmets are gay". and that is unacceptable. i wanted to slam on my brakes and smack him in the mouth. people say "that's gay" way too much and think it's funny and it's not. that one lesson could be life saving.

i have a hard time really grasping the idea of an 11 year old killing himself. like how did he know what to do? killing yourself is really hard to do, most people don't get it right the first time. how does suicide get into the brain of an 11 year old?

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 19, 2009 at 1:16pm

Compound Egret said:

Bullying isn't going stop anytime soon. To prevent kids from killing themselves over it they need to have a really open level of communication with their parents. Their folks have to really listen and not let loose with some of the standards: "man up", "I had it way worse than you", etc.

Aye to all of that--kids need some open and interested adults to talk to...
but, the kind of bullying that's about excluding folk and being mean isn't something that's inevitable. so maybe it is something that can change soon if we stop thinking it'll never ever change or it's human nature. so that's why i'm asking, what're some things that we can do to prevent that bullshit of social hierarchy and the dehumanizing fact of social isolation from being reproduced as early as in daycare or kindergarten.

I guess i'm looking for solutions to all of these problems which are usually seen as not real problems (e.g. Cocoa Puss' example of kids using 'gay' to describe something negative) or problems scapegoated to "human nature" (e.g. bullying that leads to real suffering)...
so, i'm trying to identify ways that i can help make things better in my own life w/ the kids and people around me (i think "What do you really mean?" is a great way to throw up the issue of language and implicit values).

OK so how do we raise children that won't be terror bullies or that won't stand by silent when bullying is happening (to them or others)?

And I'm sure this 11 year-old's mom tried her best to talk to her son about the bullying... and told him to come to her with his issues because she knew what they were calling him--but her advice appeared to be tell your teachers/administrators.
SO, yeah let's take this back down to the kid's level.
Maybe he needed or wanted to talk to an interested male adult for some affirmation and advice.
Maybe he correctly judged that the teachers and administrators don't and won't and haven't done anything effective to help him out as a target of relentless bullying (e.g. administrators and teachers having this implicit idea that bullying can't be helped).
...so what in the world could this kid do? transfer schools?

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 19, 2009 at 1:34pm

Oh, and to this,
"i have a hard time really grasping the idea of an 11 year old killing himself. like how did he know what to do? killing yourself is really hard to do, most people don't get it right the first time. how does suicide get into the brain of an 11 year old?"

i was "cutting" and wanting to die so i could "go home" in the sixth grade--i was about 11.

it is distressing that such young boys would get it right--there was another grade-schooler in the chicagoland area who successfully hung himself at school.

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