""""This Is What We Do" another page added to the book. Marcus Mud & Quaide: http://ning.it/IDp4BQ""
... the other Black experience
Askmen Article and its Implications
Stumbled onto this article:
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-skeletons-in-her-closet....
[excerpt]
"She’s smart, beautiful and funny. This Miss Perfect is all yours -- your fantasy come true. But, truth be told, it's possible that she
wasn't always so perfect. She may have been someone else before she was
with you, and that girl might have done some damage. Maybe she has
skeletons in her closet; things in her past
that are no longer ongoing but still haunt her. And if she does, it may
be her secret shame and something she'd do anything to keep hidden. Her
biggest fear may be that this skeleton will not only come out of the
closet, but dance. She knows it would wreck your relationship and she’s
terrified at the slightest chance that her ghosts might rattle their
chains. Maybe she dated around (and we mean around) or maybe she did drugs. These are the top 10 skeletons that every guy fears will one day come tumbling out of her closet ..."
I read it out of curiosity as heterosexual "Men" orientated media (websites, mags, etc) tends to be very misogynistic and so I was curious how they would take an issue as empty as being with a seemingly perfect woman with an imperfect "past". The whole lilt of the article is that what a woman does in her past, no matter how much she may have grown and learned from her mistakes, that past will always be held against her according to the article. The other point of the article is that if a woman does not share her "past" then she's "lying" or at fault somehow. It is almost like women are used cars and being upfront about her past is like printing the past history of the car because, you know, you never know when her past history will cause her to break down while you're driving her. The double standard is distasteful and totally undermines the variety of experiences that goes into being a living, thinking, feeling human being. This article implies that humanity and all the mars and mistakes and so on are only redeeming for the male gender. As for females, best if we stay in a nunnery to keep us pure and moral until we are selected for a mate. Once dumped, we should be placed in a home for damaged women so that the men know or else we are gonna lie about it.
Some of the commentors pointed out that the list misses out on some pretty big and more valid skeletons - major STD's, unspoken of children, abortion, previously married or still married, etc things that would matter more than "she slept around a lot". These items are more gender neutral, even the abortion one, and would toss the whole premise of the article on its head as it obvious was written in a way to trigger to the emotions of men who think their women should have a clean slate but not themselves. I could throw a religious slant on this and how paternalistic religious influence drive articles like this, hetero men-focused media like this, men and women into believing the stuff in the article (read the comments).
The article rating hovers around 50% - half like or agree with it and half do not.
Comments?
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-skeletons-in-her-closet....
[excerpt]
"She’s smart, beautiful and funny. This Miss Perfect is all yours -- your fantasy come true. But, truth be told, it's possible that she
wasn't always so perfect. She may have been someone else before she was
with you, and that girl might have done some damage. Maybe she has
skeletons in her closet; things in her past
that are no longer ongoing but still haunt her. And if she does, it may
be her secret shame and something she'd do anything to keep hidden. Her
biggest fear may be that this skeleton will not only come out of the
closet, but dance. She knows it would wreck your relationship and she’s
terrified at the slightest chance that her ghosts might rattle their
chains. Maybe she dated around (and we mean around) or maybe she did drugs. These are the top 10 skeletons that every guy fears will one day come tumbling out of her closet ..."
I read it out of curiosity as heterosexual "Men" orientated media (websites, mags, etc) tends to be very misogynistic and so I was curious how they would take an issue as empty as being with a seemingly perfect woman with an imperfect "past". The whole lilt of the article is that what a woman does in her past, no matter how much she may have grown and learned from her mistakes, that past will always be held against her according to the article. The other point of the article is that if a woman does not share her "past" then she's "lying" or at fault somehow. It is almost like women are used cars and being upfront about her past is like printing the past history of the car because, you know, you never know when her past history will cause her to break down while you're driving her. The double standard is distasteful and totally undermines the variety of experiences that goes into being a living, thinking, feeling human being. This article implies that humanity and all the mars and mistakes and so on are only redeeming for the male gender. As for females, best if we stay in a nunnery to keep us pure and moral until we are selected for a mate. Once dumped, we should be placed in a home for damaged women so that the men know or else we are gonna lie about it.
Some of the commentors pointed out that the list misses out on some pretty big and more valid skeletons - major STD's, unspoken of children, abortion, previously married or still married, etc things that would matter more than "she slept around a lot". These items are more gender neutral, even the abortion one, and would toss the whole premise of the article on its head as it obvious was written in a way to trigger to the emotions of men who think their women should have a clean slate but not themselves. I could throw a religious slant on this and how paternalistic religious influence drive articles like this, hetero men-focused media like this, men and women into believing the stuff in the article (read the comments).
The article rating hovers around 50% - half like or agree with it and half do not.
Comments?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Q.A.Bradford on -
Invert it and its probably on Cosmopolitain or Claire.com.
Male marketed consumerism 101:
convince your market that they are the perfect judge and increase their criteria of distrust and you'll maintain an unstable bunch of locusts who you can puppet through advertisement and sale after sale. It's all for the love of money, not humanity.
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Permalink Reply by Obsidian on -
I take fault with those women mags as well. I expected something bad, just not this bad, and the readers of askmen seem to agree with me as they rated the article pretty low. The article is an insult to men as well by assuming they would be that shallow with someone who is perfect for them.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on -
are you lilia or snarky snark?
the list for ppl who can't be bothered:
10. she slept w/ her boss or teacher
she was engaged
she was fat
she had a nervous breakdown
she's done illicit drugs
she has a criminal past
she's had freaky sex
she's had freaky sex on film
she had sex w/ one of your friends
1. she had sex w/ everyone
5 out of the 10 things are all about her having had sex
anyway i agree about there being much bigger and more relevant things that someone could be hiding--std/sti-s, current gf/bfs or wives/husbands, still being in love w/ someone that ain't you, past rape/s, childhood abuse, eating disorders/body dysmorphia, children/abortions, horrible credit history, anger mgmt problems, etc
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Permalink Reply by kifaru on -
Hit it right on the head. It must appeal to whoever it is marketed too.
Aminata said:Invert it and its probably on Cosmopolitain or Claire.com.
Male marketed consumerism 101:
convince your market that they are the perfect judge and increase their criteria of distrust and you'll maintain an unstable bunch of locusts who you can puppet through advertisement and sale after sale. It's all for the love of money, not humanity.
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Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on -
I've lost interest in/avoided women for things on that list. I don't think that's bad.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but when a woman starts asking me if I know so and so from this hood and that hood that are tagged all over the area, we are usually on two different pages.
I also thought this list had some good info...
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-ways-to-become-a-better-...
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
-
"No.1 - Stop idealizing women
"A very common mistake men make when interacting with women is to put on a pair of glasses that helps them say: “I will endure anything she says, I’ll overlook any flaw, if it means I can get one step closer to having sex with her.” When you’re interacting with a woman, stop idealizing her. Stop putting a halo around her head. Why? Because if you idealize her and fail to recognize all the cues about how she really is, you’re going to get yourself in a heap of trouble. You’ll be in love with someone who is deeply flawed and you missed it because you lied to yourself. Stop idealizing. When you meet a woman that seems perfect, hear the warning in your head that says “Stop Idealizing!” It can make a huge difference in how fulfilling your life is."
It's amazing... there were/are so many different ways of explaining why men should stop idealizing women... but they went w/ the most simplistic douche-y one and still rendered the woman invisible.
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Permalink Reply by Madamoiselle De Sade on -
"5 out of the 10 things are all about her having had sex"
Women must never have sex!
Either way, here's betting that many men have done some form of the sexual things listed. Is that a "skeleton" or an endearing character trait? Male media happens to be misogynistic because most men are "casually" misogynistic, it's just "normal" behavior. Most men have an ingrained sense of "natural" double standards. askmen is pretty much indicative of how they really think. Like pigs. (see above post)
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Permalink Reply by Obsidian on
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I have to disagree as the article is rated 50% by askmen readers. This article clearly does not embody the majority of the readers on askmen and thus to call them pigs is simply not right. Some of the male commentators on the article clearly state that the article is unfair. Other commentators in turn called those men "women masquerading as men" - that 50-50 is clearly shown in the comment section.
To call them pigs is playing into a double standard as well.
Mlle d. Sade said:"5 out of the 10 things are all about her having had sex"
Women must never have sex!
Either way, here's betting that many men have done some form of the sexual things listed. Is that a "skeleton" or an endearing character trait? Male media happens to be misogynistic because most men are "casually" misogynistic, it's just "normal" behavior. Most men have an ingrained sense of "natural" double standards. askmen is pretty much indicative of how they really think. Like pigs. (see above post)
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Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on
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LesYpersound said:"No.1 - Stop idealizing women It's amazing... there were/are so many different ways of explaining why men should stop idealizing women... but they went w/ the most simplistic douche-y one and still rendered the woman invisible.
I agree with not idealizing women, but I wouldn't have listed that as #1. The ones that jumped out at me were the following:
"See your self deception habits"
"Balance learning and doing"
"Stop projecting your weakness onto others"
(study leadership and learn how to) "lead"
Actually, stop idealizing anyone would have been more congruent.
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Permalink Reply by kifaru on
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I read the article/list. It seems like it's talking about women's insecurities not men's. There is not much in there I have not heard my female friends say.I don't think that it has to be turned into a gender battle as if men discussing women's insecurities is degrading to women.
I don't see how disapproving of any of the things listed in the list means a man is bad either. If any woman found out a guy used to sleep with prostitutes and cut him loose I don't think anyone would say she was imprudent. I've seen a woman disqualify a guy for sleeping with someone she thought was unattractive. "I'm not going out with him. He used to fuck fat ass Keisha." The same goes for a man who slept with another woman's cousin. I can't knock her for it.
There are plenty of people to go around for everyone and not everybody is made for everybody else. People like what they like and they dislike what they dislike. I don't think these opinions have anything to do with sexual orientation. There are plenty of youtube videos of lesbian girls (mostly studs) saying that they don't want women that have been with dudes because they think that their "stuff" is worn out and looks "beat up".
I think that if a relationship is really open there are going to be some things talked about and if you are not ashamed of what you did then you shouldn't be ashamed to talk about it. If someone told me she did not like guys who are over weight I would tell her I used to be over weight and I would not be mad at her if that disqualified me. That doesn't mean she's a piece of shit. She just doesn't like what I have to offer. Nothing to get mad about.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
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...womens' supposed insecurities.
also "studs" not wanting to be w/ women who sleep with men, even according to what you've seen and reported doesn't have to do with her being a slut--the thought of a penis there for some folks is too much--whereas about three of the things on that ask men's list is precisely about her being a "slut". also that list wasn't only about what she doesn't want you to know, but the "good" reason why she wouldn't want you to know and those reasons being focused on the "correct" male response to her secret per the authors' explanations.
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Permalink Reply by Madamoiselle De Sade on
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That article is definitely not about womens' insecurities. I'm not even sure how that could be figured. Perhaps because women have to hide a lot of ourselves because society is a lot more judgmental of us.
Right or wrong, most men are that shallow because they "get" to be that way.
Right or wrong, a lot of girls' mags like Cosmo preach acceptance of his faults (even blatant infidelity) because women must be forgiving.
Obsidian said:I have to disagree as the article is rated 50% by askmen readers. This article clearly does not embody the majority of the readers on askmen and thus to call them pigs is simply not right. Some of the male commentators on the article clearly state that the article is unfair. Other commentators in turn called those men "women masquerading as men" - that 50-50 is clearly shown in the comment section.
To call them pigs is playing into a double standard as well.
To expect fairness and not double standards from any guy you might meet off the internets is unrealistic. More than half of men think the way the article does. And those that do are usually single (and don't know why) and shallow pigs.
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