... the other Black experience
Defining the Black Alpha Male?
Hey everybody,
I randomly came across a discussion between black folks on what is an Alpha Male. Being that Black Masculinity has been made into a commodity, characuture, and all around mystery I thought I'd put this in front of everybody to comment on.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JUstLovebeatZ on -
So many levels to that conversation they were having. The most obvious is this society's rewarding of hard-driving, aggressive (Type A/ Alpha) personalities. Most of the role models in movies and entertainment are tough guys who prefer unilateral action and ramming their way through to a more patient intellectual route. In a less polite/ civil society/ anarchy brute force and "my way or the highway" attitude is necessary. We see this in the streets all the time.
In the context of the article even the men and women involved couldn't agree on the definition of an Alpha male. Some of this is from losing our culture when we were brought to this country. Some of this is the American concept of the Alpha male. "The Boss", "The Don", "Head N*gga in Charge" and more. The real question becomes what is strength? Physical strength to dominate those around you? This was outmoded by both the gun and assault and battery laws of our civilized society. Political and economic power seem more useful these days. These are two fields that, by and large, black males are lacking in here in America. Economic and Political/ Influential power are both determined by intellect and ambition rather than brute force. In the intellectual field men and women compete on even terms (though they tend to wield their intellectual swords differently). So that brings up the clash between the brother and sista in the article. What power is has changed, women are now getting power and guys, by and large, are mystified as how to handle the changes. In the old days the man was the head of the household and these days under the best situation the man and woman are equal. In reality the woman, these days used to having to fend for herself, and depending on her career may be a true "boss". There can't be two bosses and so the conflict starts. So the woman, now strong herself, still wants a strong man -> "Oh! I just hope that he is an alpha brother, too, because I am an admitted handful and if there is such a thing as "keeping me in my place" then I need a brother who can do that." There's a ton of issues in this statement as well. Being a strong woman and being a "handful" are hardly the same thing. Being stubborn and hotheaded gets mistaken for strength far too much these days in our brothers, sistas and society at large. Hell let's make it America (i.e. Iraq War). Now I've said all this stuff and we still haven't answered what an Alpha Male is yet. Much less from the black perspective.
So my short, and probably flawed definition would be this: The black man who can effectively handle all his responsibilities (to family, lover, children and the community) and do so in a honest and respectable manner.
Sorry for going on and on. So care to add a more detailed opinion? And I love to hear the ladies on this as well...
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on -
i would prefer not to... i'm undeniably a Type B personality who really dislikes stupid bossy Type A personalities.
anyway, i do think that a person who honestly, respectfully, and justly takes care of his/her responsibilities (including their own health, sanity, and general well-being) with a grand view on her/his actions affect the greater community but with their primary motivation and source of knowledge coming from lived experience and realistic/local/personal outcomes they can directly effect.
whoo...rambling. :/ what do you think?
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Permalink Reply by JUstLovebeatZ on
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I'm with you. Alpha male in the animal kingdom is simple the strongest, dominant one that leads. Not sure there's a place for him in law-abiding democratic human society. At least not in pure form.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
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i'm not even sure if this "alpha male" role is the true nature of men or human beings.
we may even be more closely related to the easy going, egalitarian Bonobo then the extraordinarily violent and territorial Chimpanzee. i think it's the baser values of this society (avarice and short-sighted selfishness)--AND the supposed shortage or unevenly/unjustly distributed resources--that bring out the violent "natures" of people.
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Permalink Reply by JUstLovebeatZ on
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An excellent point. I was basing my opinions off mostly western human history. In American society today the Alpha seems to be the "Angry Black Male" and so much of that seems to really come from abuse and low self-esteem once the therapeutic conversations start. Here the "Alpha Male" is the random jerk, thug, or reckless CEO. With less rule of law he becomes a 3rd World Dictator.
Your point leans more toward something like the variety in Native American societies where some were peaceful and some were warlike. Once again I agree. What do you think is the best way to get everyone one the same page to a truly more egalitarian state (i.e. get rid of short-sighted selfishness, which has been with us since the beginning)? Is it possible?
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
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"What do you think is the best way to get everyone one the same page to a truly more egalitarian state (i.e. get rid of short-sighted selfishness, which has been with us since the beginning)? Is it possible?"
we can start by not assuming human beings have been like this since the beginning and are doomed to be like that once again. also we can stop thinking that there will be one-off solutions to various problems. a decade ago ppl assumed it was the "end of history"--alas it wasn't and we haven't solved all of our problems. as a group we should have some sort of initiative and vague direction towards justice in mind, imo. at the very least we can stop making positivist statements we're so sure about without the evidence to back it up or simply acknowledge that we may be wrong and we always have to reflect/revise/adjust and learn from our mistakes.
Hmm... y'know what, I'd like a person (man or woman) to figure their own shit out honestly, act justly according to their chosen moral values (e.g. golden rule), and to consciously choose how to live and think for themselves (as opposed to accepting the fallacies or resigning to bitterness and sleepwalking through life). This is what I want and am working on for myself. :]
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Permalink Reply by kifaru on -
Beyond intellectual traits how much do you think wealth, success or good looks (facial features/ fitness) impacts womens perception of a man being an alpha? How much do you think these factors impact mens perceptions? What is the "wrong" in these perceptions. Is it wrong for a woman to want a man to take care of her? Is it wrong for a woman to want alpha men to the exclusion of lower social status men? Is it wrong for a man to seek to be an alpha? How much of this competition contributes to means negative perceptions of women?
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on
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not wrong, just not for me and not for the ppl id want around me.
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Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on -
LesYpersound said:i'm not even sure if this "alpha male" role is the true nature of men or human beings.
we may even be more closely related to the easy going, egalitarian Bonobo then the extraordinarily violent and territorial Chimpanzee. i think it's the baser values of this society (avarice and short-sighted selfishness)--AND the supposed shortage or unevenly/unjustly distributed resources--that bring out the violent "natures" of people.
Do you think said violent "natures" would diminish if resources were evenly distributed?
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Permalink Reply by JUstLovebeatZ on
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That's a tough one. Based on world history the dominant in the group tends to hoard all the resources. At the same time it is possible that we can grow to the point where we can all work together. The trick to a equitable society is we ALL have to play by the same rules.
Rage_Proletaire said:LesYpersound said:i'm not even sure if this "alpha male" role is the true nature of men or human beings.
we may even be more closely related to the easy going, egalitarian Bonobo then the extraordinarily violent and territorial Chimpanzee. i think it's the baser values of this society (avarice and short-sighted selfishness)--AND the supposed shortage or unevenly/unjustly distributed resources--that bring out the violent "natures" of people.
Do you think said violent "natures" would diminish if resources were evenly distributed?
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Permalink Reply by JUstLovebeatZ on
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The way one looks is definitely the starting point of the Alpha male. People naturally are drawn to the classic tall, muscular, confident appearance. I would venture to say that the distinguishing character is the heart. The alpha takes charge, stands his ground, ideally defends his friends family and interests to the bitter end. An arrogant prick with a lot of muscles may fold under pressure, shirk his responsibilities, or otherwise not amount to his potential. There are plenty of short skinny/ fat, ugly, or less than classic masculine Alphas out. I think maybe Alpha = Get the job done.
kifaru said:Beyond intellectual traits how much do you think wealth, success or good looks (facial features/ fitness) impacts womens perception of a man being an alpha? How much do you think these factors impact mens perceptions? What is the "wrong" in these perceptions. Is it wrong for a woman to want a man to take care of her? Is it wrong for a woman to want alpha men to the exclusion of lower social status men? Is it wrong for a man to seek to be an alpha? How much of this competition contributes to means negative perceptions of women?
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