Do you "talk Black" enough?

...this is a real funny topic that just now popped in my head & I realized I had never seen it come up. Have you ever had somebody give you the whole "why you don't talk Black?" speech? & not just one person in a room, everybody jumps on the bandwagon too.

When I was a kid, I lived in about 7 different States & I was spelling bee champ & a grammar whiz from school to school. After a while I said fuck it, because I got sick of people who ended up getting decent jobs anyway, rolling on the floor laughing at me for "talking proper". I wish I hadn't excelled in grammar & spelling in school in the first place, since you obviously don't need it & I didn't need the aggravation. Look who just got out of the office of President of The United States. I rest my case.

We got a gang of stupid hangups that nobody bothers to mention this one, but I don't see what's the big deal, why people act so damned childish about it. I do take advantage of the fact that people think I shoudn't know how to talk & that let's me throw the rules out the window whenever I'm lazy or in a rush. I realize that a lot of the start of "Ebonics" comes from our ancestors being taught how to speak English by porky pig ass slave owners & passing it down, but living in cities like a lot of us do, I think there must be more people than I realize who learned other dialects & have dealt with discrimination for "talkin' all proper & shit".

Basically if Simon Cowell & Pierce Brosnan could get through a convo w/ you on the first try, then you probably heard that bullshit at least once somewhere.

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Permalink Reply by Pam Newman on April 24, 2009 at 8:09am

Well, actually, Ebonics is not a set of accents, although it does have roots as a dialect based upon a variety of African language accents. Consider that most slaves in the 1700's and 1800's were descendants of slaves that had been in america for generations.

Ebonics originated from slave masters who would specifically teach their slaves to speak English incorrectly. This prevented our people from being able to effectively communicate with people who could say, get them a paying job. In some areas, the psychology of language was so deep that certain slave masters would organize to have different dialects spoken by their field hands to ensure that there wouldn't be an, "Uprising," between slaves. Preventing clear and concise communication between large numbers of slaves was a psychological and communicative tool to keep slaves in the lowest class possible.

And to stay on topic of the original post... I was born and raised in west philly, and as a little kid, I was always asked why I, "Talked so white." Well, I speak the way I choose to speak. It has nothing to do with being white, and I didn't even know any white kids when I was young! So there.

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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on April 24, 2009 at 5:07pm

Pam Newman said:

Well, actually, Ebonics is not a set of accents, although it does have roots as a dialect based upon a variety of African language accents. Consider that most slaves in the 1700's and 1800's were descendants of slaves that had been in america for generations.
Ebonics originated from slave masters who would specifically teach their slaves to speak English incorrectly. This prevented our people from being able to effectively communicate with people who could say, get them a paying job. In some areas, the psychology of language was so deep that certain slave masters would organize to have different dialects spoken by their field hands to ensure that there wouldn't be an, "Uprising," between slaves. Preventing clear and concise communication between large numbers of slaves was a psychological and communicative tool to keep slaves in the lowest class possible. And to stay on topic of the original post... I was born and raised in west philly, and as a little kid, I was always asked why I, "Talked so white." Well, I speak the way I choose to speak. It has nothing to do with being white, and I didn't even know any white kids when I was young! So there.

Not all africans spoke one language and if they're fresh off the boat they wouldn't know or be taught how to speak english properly just the english needed to do the work the slave owners bought them to do... ebonics most likely derives from american southern english as the language which two african ppl who didn't speak the same language or dialect communicated in forming a pidgen language that turned into a kind of creole that's passed down.

And what kind of paying jobs out there in the late 1600 to the early 1800s for black slaves...? i really doubt that the majority of white ppl intentionally taught black slaves improper english as a way to control them--the control aspect of keeping ppl ignorant comes from not teaching them anything aside from what you want them to do and think for you.

Saying that pidgen or creole derived languages are a tool of domination and oppresses black people who "ought" to speak proper english is... i'unno... convoluted. Why speak "proper english" at all then?

There just doesn't need to be anymore stupid values and such placed on how ppl choose to talk (over what they're saying)--esp coming from other black ppl who want black folk to conform to doing anything "proper". Ppl should just know that in our white dominated society ppl who don't make the "massa" and his ppls' sense of "normalcy" uncomfortable have privilege... ppl who speak proper aren't any better in any respect, you just get more white-approved privilege.

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey L. Wilson on April 26, 2009 at 11:29pm

Ah, "talking white"---the bane of my childhood existence.

When I was young'un coming up in Flatbush in the late 80s, I had a slight stutter, so Moms decided to assist me the best way she could--by making me work on my pronouniation and diction. After lots of practice, I went from being teased for bring a stutter to teased for being "a white boy" in a matter of months. It was one of the most mindblowing and painful times of my pre-adolescent life. Hell, it lasted til about High School.

Children can be harsh, so I have to ask: did most of the APers here who got the "talking white" receive it in the pre-adult years? Anyone get it in their 20s/30s?

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Permalink Reply by Nadia C on May 2, 2009 at 4:40am

People have always thought i'm from another country. I guess that's the only way I can sound the way I do, right? I must have been in an environment where having a proper accent is common(Or at least where there's no black person that could escape having one). Otherwise, i'd just sound "black"... I've gotten the "Why do you sound like that?", "Are you from another country?", "You sound MAD white!", and "Ohhh...That's why you sound like that. You're trying to sound like 'them'(meaning British people)", comments before. It is frustrating. But what would be even more frustrating is adding even more of a burden to my black existence by making it even HARDER for me to get a job by not sounding the way I do. You know what? I"m proud of my voice, because it's the reason i've gotten the jobs i've had. It's one of the first things people notice. It's one of the first things they judge you by. And yes, people shouldn't be judging you anyways. Because there's a big difference between sounding "Urban"/using slang, and sounding ignorant. But i'm personally glad that I don't sound like the latter.

I'm 20, and I still get flack for sounding "white", by blacks and hispanics, mostly. Yeah. I don't ever recall having a comment from an Asian person, lol. White people have never said anything negative. I either get the weird look like..."Hmmm....Well, you LOOK "Black", but you're so proper!" or people are just actually really nice to me cause it's like i'm breaking the stereotype and they don't feel like they have to get all defensive around me. Which feels good.

Then again. There have been some people, black and white, who, when they notice I don't fit the sterotype, in voice or dress, will just do ignorant shit around me to piss me off. (Usually saying something racist, getting all uber-neo nazi or sexist, turning up their rap and bobbing their heads to it, or getting all uber-ghettofied around me.)

But that's the downside of having the voice I do. Some black people know i'm a lady, and call me "Ma'am" and such, but others might think i'm better than them, or will just shy away from me cause it's weird that I sound this way.

I don't remember it much when I was younger.

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Permalink Reply by Spiralkitten on May 2, 2009 at 2:27pm

By my standards, I think I talk black enough because I am black. You can understand me and hear me clearly, then thats all you need to worry about. I don't understand why people make the "sound" of a voice such a big deal..or that I use big words, which are not really big words for a teenager.O.o

You don't see me going around telling Asian people they don't sound "Asian" enough or people of Irish descent they don't sound "Irish" enough, it's all ignorance and annoyance as far as I am concerned. Plus I've noticed when they don't have nothing else to mess with you about they always go after your voice, have you notice that. It goes from the certain flaws/imperfections like maybe having poor eyesight or a big forehead..then it's your clothes..you may wear a lot of dark colors and band tee's then a "black" person should and then if you still don't give a fuck about them or what they have to say..they go straight for your voice. Thats why bullies are shat nowadays, they fall into these predictable ruts an what use to hurt you now annoys you to no end. Everytime I see a bully I think of a fat ugly harpie,.hawking the same crap over and over..and all the time I am thinking "Go get barbequed..".

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey L. Wilson on May 3, 2009 at 4:40am

It's pure tribalism. Every group (ethnic, religious, racial) demonstrates tribalism in some form.

When I used to live in East Flatbush, I wasn't one of the Caribbeans, so I was an outsider "yankee." You're either with Jesus or against him. You talk black or you wannabe white. All the same poisons, all the same BS. Unfortunately, the majority of humanity has adopted this way of thinking. Maybe we all have to some degree. Could the brain be hard-wired for this?

Nadia C said:

People have always thought i'm from another country. I guess that's the only way I can sound the way I do, right? I must have been in an environment where having a proper accent is common(Or at least where there's no black person that could escape having one). Otherwise, i'd just sound "black"... I've gotten the "Why do you sound like that?", "Are you from another country?", "You sound MAD white!", and "Ohhh...That's why you sound like that. You're trying to sound like 'them'(meaning British people)", comments before. It is frustrating. But what would be even more frustrating is adding even more of a burden to my black existence by making it even HARDER for me to get a job by not sounding the way I do. You know what? I"m proud of my voice, because it's the reason i've gotten the jobs i've had. It's one of the first things people notice. It's one of the first things they judge you by. And yes, people shouldn't be judging you anyways. Because there's a big difference between sounding "Urban"/using slang, and sounding ignorant. But i'm personally glad that I don't sound like the latter.

I'm 20, and I still get flack for sounding "white", by blacks and hispanics, mostly. Yeah. I don't ever recall having a comment from an Asian person, lol. White people have never said anything negative. I either get the weird look like..."Hmmm....Well, you LOOK "Black", but you're so proper!" or people are just actually really nice to me cause it's like i'm breaking the stereotype and they don't feel like they have to get all defensive around me. Which feels good.

Then again. There have been some people, black and white, who, when they notice I don't fit the sterotype, in voice or dress, will just do ignorant shit around me to piss me off. (Usually saying something racist, getting all uber-neo nazi or sexist, turning up their rap and bobbing their heads to it, or getting all uber-ghettofied around me.)

But that's the downside of having the voice I do. Some black people know i'm a lady, and call me "Ma'am" and such, but others might think i'm better than them, or will just shy away from me cause it's weird that I sound this way.

I don't remember it much when I was younger.

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Permalink Reply by Andreana Tarleton on May 3, 2009 at 2:53pm

Yes, this has been an object of many conversations with people at my school. Whenever I say something they look at me and say "Quit being white!". I honestly don't get why they think that I have to talk a certain way in order to take up for my blackness. A lot of the other black folks around where I live are getting really racist now that Obama's president. Since I don't listen to hip hop, talk, or dress like them, they hate on me. They say I'm just not black enough. I have to roll my eyes at them when they say that.

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Permalink Reply by Nadira_Akila on May 5, 2009 at 1:02pm

This topic is on point. Idella that video is really funny hon.
I've been getting this since I've moved to the US from Heidelberg, Germany. It was always "Why you talk like that?" "Talk Black" etc The way I speak is still a source of humor for those that are ignorant and I can really appreciate them now for making me better. It used to bother me when I was younger but as I got older I realized there is a time and place for everything. I speak the way I want to speak when I'm with my folks but I know how to express myself with the best of them when it's time for business. To say someone talks white or whatever has always been the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But what can I say when a bunch of people are brought up to not have enough love for themselves or their people to think that they're just as good as other races. Oh well some will never get it............

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Permalink Reply by Nadia C on May 10, 2009 at 3:11am

What's also frustrating is when I try to express my interest in something my peers are watching/talking about, something more geered towards their lifestyle, than mine(Mainstream urban rap/hip hop), and show that i'm interested in becoming more open-minded about it. Like...I'm trying to *be open minded about the things you're interested in, cause the last thing I want is for you to think i'm an uber-snob, but all you're doing is shutting me down because I can't express interest in your language. Because I sound "White" when I try to? Like I remember some people were watching an old school rap video. I know the group(Bunch of kids) had a one hit wonder back in the 80s/early 90s, and their song might have been called "Jump"(Chorus kept repeating that). Anyways, I tried to tell them that the video they were watching had a tight sound, and I really liked it. So I said something like, "Did a bunch of kids write this?" Answer was "Yes". "Wow...That's actually really cool!". Cause I actually really did think it was cool a bunch of kids *Wrote their own song, and them found out how to sing it so...What do you call it? Rhythmically. Yeah, my response was pretty lame at the time. But they shot me glances like I was just such a bother or something. Like I was just so...Out of their little world.

Andreana Tarleton said:

Yes, this has been an object of many conversations with people at my school. Whenever I say something they look at me and say "Quit being white!". I honestly don't get why they think that I have to talk a certain way in order to take up for my blackness. A lot of the other black folks around where I live are getting really racist now that Obama's president. Since I don't listen to hip hop, talk, or dress like them, they hate on me. They say I'm just not black enough. I have to roll my eyes at them when they say that.

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Permalink Reply by Adam on May 17, 2009 at 12:49pm

I got that a lot in the past, I've always been a good speaker and I've never really been a one to overuse slang or make up terms...

In the long run it didn't really bother me, I've always considered being good with English an advantage and it continually pays off for me.

When you really think about it, its hilarious for people to think like that. Why should you have to express your colour through the way you speak? Isn't the visual enough of an indicator? That's an absolute, whereas speach can vary so much for so many reasons.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Know on May 17, 2009 at 9:40pm

When I went to Africa, all of the black people I saw there spoke their languages perfectly with immaculate diction, pronunciation, grammar, etc. Speaing those languages poorly was universally frowned upon. As far as I'm concerned, speaking properly IS speaking Black. You don't have to arrest every syllable like Anglos say you need to, but you should be able to speak the language of your birth as well as anyone.

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Permalink Reply by Xombie Panik on May 21, 2009 at 9:48pm

That's a good point Dr. Know, I like that

Dr. Know said:

When I went to Africa, all of the black people I saw there spoke their languages perfectly with immaculate diction, pronunciation, grammar, etc. Speaing those languages poorly was universally frowned upon. As far as I'm concerned, speaking properly IS speaking Black. You don't have to arrest every syllable like Anglos say you need to, but you should be able to speak the language of your birth as well as anyone.