Women and Men Should do This??

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Q.A.Bradford on May 29, 2010 at 9:46am

I think all people should perform gentlemanly chivalry and receive ladylike courtesy. Incorporate this into daily life and all problems are solved but you have to def. get past stuffy gender suppositions.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rage_Proletaire on May 29, 2010 at 11:37am

Travarus Littlejohn said:

Now days women are doing just as much as men and heck even more at times…

… Always been that way, methinks.

Travarus Littlejohn said:

Why is it okay for men to be expected to do things but a problem when man expects a woman to?”

I used to ask this question a lot to no one in particular (and thus began my previous aversion to the idea of being “with” anyone =P)

I think it’s because there’s never really been an even exchange between the two traditionally-recognized genders (in the States), and possibly never will be (?). I can’t speak for the rest of the world, as there are places wherein people are allowed to exist within more expansive gender roles, and some societies that make room for third-gender designations. But here, there’s only two, and our society’s already done us the wonderful favor of assigning expectations to those roles, not to mention we don’t even get to choose our own role without catching some flack. There are old heads buried in the ways of the past, and new ones too, still under the impressions of the “old guard”.

Something I learned from somebody else here on the boards: no matter how advanced I might consider my own personal politics (regarding gender), there’s ultimately nothing I can do to change the past. As far as the present is concerned, I can only attempt to make an impression on the future as an individual, but a drop in the ocean ain’t much of a pittance at all. I’m not going to completely convert the world I live in by my actions as an individual, nor do I want to. I try to give others the same breathing room that I demand, free of anyone’s stuffy expectations.

I’ve also been forced to acknowledge the error in assuming that everyone is as idealistic as I aspire to be; telling a woman that she’s as “equal as she wants to be” and pretending that all’s right in the world would make me seem out of touch and patronizing. It would be the same thing as being told by a white person that “that racism thing is a problem of the past,” and that institutional discrimination no longer exists (“colorblindness” is what they’re calling it =P).

(I’ve a co-worker who went out of his way to tell me that he holds doors open for women and black people, specifically. Every few weeks or so, he always has a story about some “stuck-up bitch” who didn’t thank him for his “kindness” and opines that the world at large isn’t as “forward-thinking” as he’d like it to be.)

I used to scoff when women would proclaim a certain set of traits to be the “mark of a real man”. Then I realized that men have always exercised the same right, and still do -- whether or not I choose to do the same is irrelevant beyond my self. Women have the right to discriminate based on their standards and expectations of men just the same; it wouldn’t be my place as a proclaimed “enlightened man” to ask a woman to forfeit her right to do so; I applaud anybody under oppression who learns to exploit the gaps in a tilted social structure.

I think some of the guys who raise a stink about women being too picky are simply hoping that certain expectations will be waived in exchange for insincere kindness and patronage. From my own dealings, I’ve decided that it’s more productive to acknowledge the difference in treatment of genders, along with how that affects my world, which means I now yield to women more often than not, and I don’t expect thanks in return.

Sorry so long.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on May 29, 2010 at 11:51am

twas worth it tho.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shawn Kemp on May 29, 2010 at 1:27pm

My comment is, why the hell not? No matter how equel a man and a woman have become, I still get a nice feeling everytime I do something nice for a woman, young or old. I believe a complement from a woman is the highest praise a man can have, even more so then if the president was to praise you for something. Its those little differences that makes life worth living, even for the lonely.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kifaru on May 29, 2010 at 6:30pm

It's because people don't really want to be equal. People want things to benefit them. People like systems when the systems are to their advantage. There are no ideal systems Even when people come up with idealized systems they are ultimately coming up with a system that they themselves feel would benefit from. There are some human urges and emotions that overcome peoples idealized models all the time. Take for example people's love of being deferred too. That's why yes men exist. It is a rare person that really hates greed and doesn't want just a little more for himself than for his fellow man that's why pure socialism and communism don't work. Ambition obliterates true meritocracy. People will fight like hell for whatever advantage, often stated as a "right", that they think they have. When the perception of advantage begins to wane due to erosion from societal factors entrenchment lessens and then the pendulum swings the other way. The systems tend to stabilize and remain a certain way for a while before they change. So, the systems are groups of expectations.

In reference to gender roles it's the same in my opinion. Certain social systems make roles valuable. The social systems make certain assumptions about what is masculine or feminine and that leads to predetermined actions which become socially rigid, i.e expectations, for example etiquette. Gender expectations are in place to obtain a desired result in partnering. If people can get the result they want without meeting certain expectations they will. There are things that offset or totally invalidate gender expectations Men with desirable traits need not be "nice" nor faithful nor honest to women to get partners. Likewise a person need not meet the gender expectations of someone they do not view as desirable.

The people who complain about the system are the people who are not benefiting from it. K.L. Jones.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on May 29, 2010 at 9:37pm

Trav,
Don't know if it will ever change. If I could go out to dinner for free, I would. I don't think it's progress, but there seems to be this whole group of women that goes way above and beyond for their beloved thug/prisoner dudes.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kaila Davis on May 29, 2010 at 9:49pm

Certain actions like holding doors and paying for dates should be given as a sign of respect and courting. Other things like cooking, cleaning, fixing things should be done by whoever knows how to do it best.

Point being: Its all about respect. If you care or respect a person you should be willing to say "Let me get that for you" or "let me do that for you." This shouldn't be limited to one gender. It's all about giving yourself nd skills for the other person. It's only because of history that certain acts are expected to be performed by certain genders. Just like it was expected for women to wear skirts and men pants, but over time things change.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shawn Kemp on May 31, 2010 at 2:54pm

Theres another question then. Does women who activily goes for the men they know will only hurt them anyways, deserve the anguish and suffering that they will get in return for their love? I hate to see women hurt, but sometimes its unnavoidable if they want that life.

Compound Egret said:

Trav,
Don't know if it will ever change. If I could go out to dinner for free, I would. I don't think it's progress, but there seems to be this whole group of women that goes way above and beyond for their beloved thug/prisoner dudes.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Compound Egret on May 31, 2010 at 6:43pm

^^^^^
Everyone makes choices. A person's past behavior is telling a story. Disregarding it doesn't make sense to me.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by lyfenlyn on June 3, 2010 at 8:46pm

this

Aminata said:

I think all people should perform gentlemanly chivalry and receive ladylike courtesy. Incorporate this into daily life and all problems are solved but you have to def. get past stuffy gender suppositions.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion