... the other Black experience
You like the punk style?
I stole this thread from a videogame forum. Its a game where a lot of the characters look like punks and 90s ravers with machineguns. Anyway this one guy posts this and I thought it was interesting in this day and age, where it seems like hipsterism has made all kinds of retro dress acceptable:
"I know that a lot of people on (this game) make their characters to look like people of the "punk" variety, but in real life people are often not too
fond of the look.
I know from personal experience that people can target you for something
as small as having a mohawk or liberty
spikes.
In 1997 a punk kid called Brian Deneke
was killed by a jock kid called Dustin Camp, below is an image that
shows a pic of Deneke and briefly summarises some of the main points:
Things that the above image misses out is the fact that there are people (friends of the jock even) who gave testimony in court saying that it
wasn't accidental, he wanted to kill Deneke and was quoted to say "I'm a Ninja in my Caddy!" while charging at
Deneke, and "I bet he liked that one"
shortly after hitting him.
He also tried to pull off a similar stunt earlier that day in a car
park, he tried to run down a group of associated punks.
Despite all the evidence and witness statements Camp was only given 10
years probation, after being found guilty of "voluntary
manslaughter". For those who don't know what that is:
From wikipedia:
"Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of
passion", under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to
become emotionally or mentally disturbed. In the Uniform Crime Reports
prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation it is referred to as non
negligent manslaughter."
The fact that this kid had twice tried to injure/kill people, solely for being punks apparently meant nothing.
The guys lawyer told the jury that all the punks who gave testimony in
the court were lying. He said that Camp was "an
all american, a good Christian, a good Texan, and a football player"
as if that would change the fact that he murdered
a kid in cold blood.
Apparently just over 10 years ago in Amarillo, Texas it was deemed
perfectly acceptable to murder someone, so long as you didn't deem them
normal.
It's not like it only happens in the US either, there was a case even
more recent where a Goth girl and her boyfriend got beaten into comas (both of them), unfortunately
one of them died shortly after, purely because the group (about 10)
deemed them "moshers".
THIS HALLOWEEN in Sheffield there was a
wedding between a gothic couple and the bride got punched in
the face for the way she looked afterwards. Luckily she only had a
black eye and was able to go on her honeymoon.
Pretty much the main point of this thread is that while you guys might
like the alternative look, you probably don't realise how a lot of
people react to it in the "real world". Luckily I'm quite a big guy and
can look after myself, so I rarely get too much trouble but sometimes
all that needs to happen is for someone to step up for someone to avoid
an incident like these.
Do you think that Dustin Camp would have still ran over a punk kid just
for how he looked if one of his friends maybe talked to him about this
stuff before?
Food for thought.
Dustin Camp is currently living free, no more probation
or anything, despite he killed a kid just over 12 years ago AND violated
his probation.""
I haven't heard from kids being harrassed too much now that punk gets lumped in with more trendy subcultures like emo, scene, goth, etc...but I'm never gonna forget those days. I stood on my own with no problem, but people used to come up to shows with busted up faces, broken legs & shit due to mainstream harrassment every year. Gonna be a long time before I forget all that bullshit.
"I know that a lot of people on (this game) make their characters to look like people of the "punk" variety, but in real life people are often not too
fond of the look.
I know from personal experience that people can target you for something
as small as having a mohawk or liberty
spikes.
In 1997 a punk kid called Brian Deneke
was killed by a jock kid called Dustin Camp, below is an image that
shows a pic of Deneke and briefly summarises some of the main points:
Things that the above image misses out is the fact that there are people (friends of the jock even) who gave testimony in court saying that it
wasn't accidental, he wanted to kill Deneke and was quoted to say "I'm a Ninja in my Caddy!" while charging at
Deneke, and "I bet he liked that one"
shortly after hitting him.
He also tried to pull off a similar stunt earlier that day in a car
park, he tried to run down a group of associated punks.
Despite all the evidence and witness statements Camp was only given 10
years probation, after being found guilty of "voluntary
manslaughter". For those who don't know what that is:
From wikipedia:
"Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of
passion", under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to
become emotionally or mentally disturbed. In the Uniform Crime Reports
prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation it is referred to as non
negligent manslaughter."
The fact that this kid had twice tried to injure/kill people, solely for being punks apparently meant nothing.
The guys lawyer told the jury that all the punks who gave testimony in
the court were lying. He said that Camp was "an
all american, a good Christian, a good Texan, and a football player"
as if that would change the fact that he murdered
a kid in cold blood.
Apparently just over 10 years ago in Amarillo, Texas it was deemed
perfectly acceptable to murder someone, so long as you didn't deem them
normal.
It's not like it only happens in the US either, there was a case even
more recent where a Goth girl and her boyfriend got beaten into comas (both of them), unfortunately
one of them died shortly after, purely because the group (about 10)
deemed them "moshers".
THIS HALLOWEEN in Sheffield there was a
wedding between a gothic couple and the bride got punched in
the face for the way she looked afterwards. Luckily she only had a
black eye and was able to go on her honeymoon.
Pretty much the main point of this thread is that while you guys might
like the alternative look, you probably don't realise how a lot of
people react to it in the "real world". Luckily I'm quite a big guy and
can look after myself, so I rarely get too much trouble but sometimes
all that needs to happen is for someone to step up for someone to avoid
an incident like these.
Do you think that Dustin Camp would have still ran over a punk kid just
for how he looked if one of his friends maybe talked to him about this
stuff before?
Food for thought.
Dustin Camp is currently living free, no more probation
or anything, despite he killed a kid just over 12 years ago AND violated
his probation.""
I haven't heard from kids being harrassed too much now that punk gets lumped in with more trendy subcultures like emo, scene, goth, etc...but I'm never gonna forget those days. I stood on my own with no problem, but people used to come up to shows with busted up faces, broken legs & shit due to mainstream harrassment every year. Gonna be a long time before I forget all that bullshit.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Q.A.Bradford on -
Compassion has to be taught. "Normal" unregulated socialization leads to people being monkey barbarians. If they don't like how it feels or think its "weird" or "different" they usually assume its a cue to take action, when its not. Whether it be negative or positive action.
In middle school, I was pretty quiet, civil and very much into comics. I remember being spit on, even struck in the face once probably because I was nerdy and on top of that black. And even now, after graduating college, I realized that even my peers in my department were group culture, normalcy believing bullies. Some wouldn't bother with communicating to find out. They'd rather personalize people's problems and believe in archaic ideas like "comeuppance". And these weren't the "normal" kids in the American sense either.
I think the most fatal idea is that idea of "normalcy". Commonality, standardization, coordination and synchronization is fine -- but "normalcy" is an ideal. Its an ideology based in nothing real or scientifically proven and the ignorance vested in it destroys people's lives.
Alber‡ (◣_◢)© said:Stuff like this happens all the time, it's half the reason we have incidents like Columbine, which was an instance where the outcast struck back, and I don't advocate that in anyway. It's funny that we live in 2010 which is supposed to be a more acceptant times, and stuff like this will still happen. I seen it every day, and I still see it, for more that just looking different, I mean you should see some of the stuff people say about autistics, as an example I know people who have some serious hatred towards high functioning autistics because they're "Self loathing" about their condition or they're anti-social, as if they can help being born a certain way, I'm not autistic but thats sad.
I've experience bullying all my life, from elementary to high school where people would mess with you and say they hated you or something, and all you had to so was sit around an be quiet, and while I didn't dress different(well until high school where uniforms weren't mandatory) I just got the abuse because I was quiet, and never bothered with anyone. I got accusations of being gay(and I show no signs of being gay), later on being a perv or stalker, and in high school some big jock came and hit me square in the back of my head(which if anyone can tell you is bad) a few times with hard force, and I got up in a rage and walked out the class, and my teacher wasn't going to let me back in, but he realized my situation. I mean until the day of graduation these guys were dicks. Like at graduation while sitting down waiting to be called for out diploma(or whatever they're called) a gay student got called up for his diploma, and as before like we did for all other classmates, I clapped for the guy, and some dicks sitting behind me said "Albert is clapping for that faggy!" and I said "Stfu up man" I forgot what else I said, but it was something about us graduating and grow up.
People are dicks, if you don't fit in with what is normal in society right now, and don't tell me that bullshit about "No such thing is normal", perceived normalcy at the time is what I'm referring to. The guy mentioned in this thread wouldn't have gotten the same if he was a jock, or the normal teen at the time.
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Kemp on -
I know all about that era. Elem. and middle school was hell for me. Just like you though, I realized I was tougher then everyone else during my second year in highschool. That was during the time I would laugh at my teachers when they said its better to be respected then feared. The biggest side effect is getting over all those years of your life being spent in hating everyone around you.
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Permalink Reply by LesYpersound on -
1990s richboys pick on punks/metalheads/goths...yeah, reminds me of those paradise lost three guys who were the first suspects for killing three second graders in west memphis. kind of obvious the cops didn't know whodunit and they targeted a bunch of weird looking probably "gay" people. I guess there were no black guys around? Oh wait--the defenders of the west memphis three do think a mysterious black BoJingles guy was or should be the top suspect in those murders. LOL. So I wonder if there's a hierarchy in scape goats--you got the punks, the gays, the blacks, the immigrants, the who else? lol.
but seriously, poor people who don't conform are the folks who are shut out of normalcy--white, black, brown, yellow, purple, whatever. but maybe calvin you're right that hipsters of the 00s has really liberalized what "normal" people can look like.
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